Well Nathalie, welcome to Vietnam!

i have been here for 3 years and start to have a good experience in renting house, trust me on this one!

First and fore most, avoid as much as possible to leave a deposit. If you need to secure a house or apartment, say that you give 1 month in advance or 2 or 3 but no matter what the money you give in advance count as rent payment.
more than 95% of the people i know or talked to who gave a "deposit" had a very hard time to get it back if they got it back. the landlord will find any excuse possible and make you linger and run after him to get your money; hopping that you will give up.

As for 1 year in advance, this is crazy, the standard now in hanoi, and it's been like that for a while is 3 months or 4 when signing and payment of 3 months of rent every 3 months. A year of payment means the guy need money badly and is trying anything. I wouldn't do it unless you get a real contract with a red invoice through a proper real estate agency and that your company is paying for it. other than that, i, personally would not go there even if it means i have to find something else.

If you pay 1 year in advance, chances are you will not have any help from your landlord should something happen. At least if you need to fix something you can play the game: you fix, you get your rent.

As for the 2 contracts, one for you and one for the tax office, it is quite normal. I have actually never seen a country where people are screwing up their government so much. And you wonder why the government does not have enough money to improve health care system etc... obviously...no body pays his/her tax as they should!!!

There is no real way to bind these contract legally unless you get a red invoice that prove the monthly rent amount.

So to sum up, be careful when entering this kind of deal, because once the money is given to the landlord, there is no turning back. you have good landlords, but usually the good ones don't ask for 1 month deposit and 1 year payment in advance.

Unfortunately, if it means loosing a nice place, well some times it's better than having to face trouble later.

you can ask around, there countless stories of people getting screwed.

Maybe you can ask some one at your work to help you with that, it helps sometime to have a Vietnamese on your side during negotiation.

i hope that will help you. i don't want to sound pessimist but just to give you a "head's up!".

cheers

I'd have to agree with most of what was said above. The real kicker is the asking for a deposit after requiring a full year of rent in advance. That's ridiculous. You're taking almost all the risks here. Three months in advance is the most common contract, and you'll occasionally pay six months (I do, for instance). I'd be pretty wary of this set up. There are many ways it could end badly.

Thanks for your advice!!!

I think the apartment is a steal - it is newly renovated with brand new furniture and equipment and secure as well- a far cry from the many other apartments I have been shown over the past three months! The owner seems very particular about keeping the property well maintained and is keen to regularly have the unit checked for leaks, equipment breakdown etc. I guess the aparment meets my criteria both in terms of physical structure and owner.

I have agreed to the arrangement already and will sign the contract amended according to my suggestions and upon scrutiny of a lawyer (especially for the exact match of Vietnamese and English versions!)My organization is not new to this kind of transaction (1 year advance payment)as our other expats have had this kind of arrangement(in Manila for example).

Fingers crossed that this deal will have a happy beginning and ending - for me and the landlord! Thanks again!

no offense, but maybe that's why people hired locally or working for company that does not provide house allowance; have problems renting descent places at descent prices.

In what other proper country do you pay rent 1 year in advance with a deposit on top of that?

I was gonna rent a house once asked for 800$ that could have been dealt to 650-700$, the landlord almost accepted when some one from an Embassy came up and offer 1600$ which was the maximum he was given as an allowance. Even my agent fund that price completely insane for the house.

Why on earth Embassies, NGOs or any other organizations accept such stupid condition or crazy prices?

But i still wish you god luck because as Alpha said, you have the wrong side of the bargain in this one. without looking at the profiles, i can tell Alpha has been here for a few years already and you just arrived in Hanoi, correct?

Be very careful anyway
cheers

Good luck with it. I hope it turns out well for you. Maybe your organization will have enough perceived clout to keep the landlord in line with the hopes of getting similar deals in the future. People with organizational ties, while occasionally paying higher rates as bobthebob01 mentioned, also often get decent service on the landlord end because they don't want to lose out on future deals.

Don't be shy about coming back to the community with any experiences this year long contract brings you!

You have no doubt already gone ahead as planned so not sure why the question was asked????

nice one hanoikiwi

Thanks for your comment. A number of my important concerns were addressed in the course of my negotiations with the landlord hence value was created for the both of us. While overall it still favors the landlord (always does), I think in the end I will be getting the value that is important to me.

Besides this website was offline soon after I posted my query and I couldn't get a reply within the time frame I needed to make a decision. Fortunately I have a Vietnamese lawyer friend in Hanoi helping me in the process.

I am looking at renting and do not need a red receipt.

The landlord may actually pay tax as I am sure the previous tennants were working for a company that would require it.

I am guessing if the LL suddenly stopped paying tax on his property someone would notice it?

Is it common to split the tax amount between the landlord and the tennant.

Any advice in the negotiations?

PLEASE NOTE - see my post above, I am tagging on this question asked some time ago. Please don't answer the OP

"Beer"

Offer straight out to sign two contracts, if he wishes, so he can pay tax on the lower amount. Tax is his obligation, not yours, so it would just be reflected as part of your rent. The second contract covers him if the tax dept. did want to chase him.

I doubt the tax department would notice, nobody has paid tax for the first half of this year and as this would part of his personal income it would be highlighted for any particular reason.

I'd negotiate a 3mth lease with a guaranteed 12mth extension (from both parties) if the landlord can sort out all the niggling problems in the initial period. You should get a decent rate that way.

"Beer"

@Nathalie:
Everyone here do the same thing like you do. Signing two contracts for different purposes.
1. Original one: this one states the real amount of money you have to pay the landlord but you two must bring the contract to notary public's office to get it notarised. This makes sure noone is able to break the deal anymore. Both parties are well-protected in this case.
2. Not official one: you need this contract for the tax office and of course you keep this one with the rent fee as low as possible. Though it needs to be signed kie any other contracts but you dont need to bring it to notary office.

In practice, rent fee tax is negotiated to decide who pay between tennant and landlord written in the contract. If the landlord has to pay then the rent fee should be very high. That's why the tennants are supposed to pay the tax in most cases to get a good deal from the lease. I understand you are doing the same thing.

In a standard contract, you are supposed to pay one or two months for deposit for a long term lease. That's why im thinking it's normal for you to pay a deposit coz your organisation needs it for long period of time rite? 6 month advance payment is ideal but no surpise if it is one year.

It would be of no problem when you have a local lawyer friend to assist you. It should be weird to you all but it's just the local way to do it.

Hope this might help you a little bit.
Gluck!

Anyone that would consider paying one years rent in advance, as well as a security deposit, anywhere in the world, let alone Vietnam, needs more than just an apartment. I wish I were your landlord and I could find five more like you.

tctaft please see above- I was asking a question but as it was similar I tagged. Natalies is an old post.