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THis may be a question more for older hanoians than younger hanoians... Or at least ones who have been here longer.
When I first arrived i hired a housekeeper for $100 per month. for 4 1/2 hours a day 5 days a week. She also works part time for another family. She is fantastic she cooks, she cleans, and is very trustworthy.
She has just asked for what i would say is a ridiculious raise in pay to $150.
Because i don't know many other people who hire a housekeeper I would love to know...
What is the going rate for a housekeeper...?? I have heard wildly different amounts here so I would love to see the difference...
I know inflation is insane.... But to anyone a 50% payrise would be a lot within a year....
I would love to hear some viewpoints.... PLease note that do know this seems a bit colonialist and ridiculious. I want to keep the peace, and be a good employer...
Cheers.
Sam
Housekeeper cleaner pay vietnamese (add tags) Why? Details of tags
answered about 4 months ago by virezo
Yes, the inflation is a problem now but $150 per month for a housekeeper is hard to accept. $150 is 2,4 million VND for 22,5 hours per week. In addition, she's been working for another family so I guess she earns at least 4 million VND per moth. That's quite a lot comparing to another jobs. However, it depends on how much energy she spends for cooking, cleaning... I mean if you're house is big, there're 6 or more members in your family, especially there's a baby then you need to pay her more, otherwise keep the current salary.
answered about 4 months ago by Atomic
Pay it. Yeah, it's a big jump but also something to be expected in a developing country with the current market conditions. She's trustworthy, cooks and cleans, makes you happy, and is assumedly one of the reasons your life in Hanoi is a happy one and more comfortable than it might be in ____________ . Mos def worth an additional fitty imo.
answered about 4 months ago by Khumbu
I understand that we pay our housekeeper $100 / month for 4 hours, 6 days a week. She is also trustworthy and cleans well. She does not cook or shop for us. Given the cooking, I think yours sounds like an exceptional deal for $100 and is probably deserving of being paid a little more. Having said that, it is a substantial rise given the base salary. If it makes you uncomfortable, can you perhaps suggest a $25 / month raise now and a $25 / month raise in 6 months or 1 year's time? If you can't negotiate this then I'd just pay the raise (or maybe a rise to $140 /month - try for a little less), especially because, as Atomic has said, of the current market conditions in Vietnam. And because you want to continue to keep some one you can trust and rely on. Think about how much effort it would be to find and monitor and manage a replacement housekeeper until you were confident in them and place an economic value on that - is it more than $50 / month?
answered about 4 months ago by jimbo
You say that when you 'first arrived' you started paying her $100/month. So the raise is NOT 50% in one year, it's far less calculated over how many years you've employed her. Give her the raise. Think what it would be like to find someone new, get them oriented, assess their abilities, and determine if they are trustworthy.
answered about 4 months ago by Chestnut
Just pay it. It does seem a big jump, but remember that everything is going up in price right now - food, fuel, electricty, schooling, etc. A massive proportion of her income will be going on these essentials - say 90%. The inflation is hitting all of us, but worse off are low income earners trying to cope in the expensive big cities. And Hanoi is starting to become a little less safe; there's been an increase in petty crimes against Westerners over the past 12 months, and keeping someone you can really trust is worth paying a bit more. We increased our maids salary a couple of months ago - we always reminded ourselves of what you'd get for the same money back home from a cleaning company!
answered about 4 months ago by VietSam
Just to add to the forum.. We have employed our housekeeper for under a year...(september last year) We have a 4 bedroom house with two of us living here.... so no family no children... One dog who she dosn't look after.... Thank you all for your comments... still working on it.. More imput is welcome!
So I think the current salary is reasonable. If you want to keep her, just raise her wage a bit, maybe 20% then she'll satisfy the circumstance: every price is getting higher and so does her salary.
answered about 4 months ago by Snellopy
All our mates were whining about the rate of inflation, and had recently got pay rises at work. I figured if we were pissing and moaning about everything going up, it would be the same for my maid, and upped her salary last month from 1,000,000 to 1,200,000 and told her if it wasn't enough, then I would be more than willing to lift it again as needs be. She doesn't come for long, but she doesn't have to, she does an awesome job (I imagine she looks something like an octopus spinning around like Tassie Devil the way she does it all so quickly), but I trust her implictly, and figure throwing more dough at her to get her to stay is far better than having to get someone else used to my grubby nature.
She works 5 days/22 hours a week cleaning and cooking for TWO PEOPLE? You've got to be kidding. Are you a pair of 5-year-olds left abandoned in Hanoi? I'm sure she looks at your 4-bedroom house with two helpless occupants and wonders if you might have some spare change for her (in addition to the spare rooms). Does she have children of her own? Have you visited her home? Try doing your own ironing for a month and then reconsider her salary.
(i think he thinks you might should gonna give her some more money. And you're really bad, filthy and irresponsible people who should have some babies and see what it's really like.)
The question that comes to my mind is not 'OMG, how filthy / helpless / pampered are you people?', rather 'OMG, what does the house keeper actually do all day?!' Much like the one we have for three people, I suspect a lot of housekeepers are being paid for a much longer period of time than they need to do the work that's required. Subsidising inefficiency: it's the expat way in developing countries, it seems. In my home country I had a cleaner who did approximately two-thirds the amount of work, in 3 hours a week. I also paid her approximately us$80, however that was on a weekly rather than monthly basis. So still feeling like I have an exceptional deal here, even if it's actively undermining the notion of working efficiency.
answered about 4 months ago by bethanybauman
I don't want to cause a stir here, but to be diplomatic about the situation, why don't you make an itemized list of EXACTLY what she does in a week? You can sit down separately, and put a value to each item. Then switch your lists, and see where the disconnect is. Assess, discuss, make necessary changes. Problem solved.
The inflation affects everybody now. The maid's current salary is acceptalbe. In other Vietnamese households, they paid less than that for cooking and cleaning even there're 4 or more family members, 4 to 6 bedrooms. The main thing is that she just has to cook and clean the house. Some pay more for their maids if they have to wash clothes, take care of babies... but it's not this situation. So do you think working for foreigners worth more than for native? No, you pay for what she really does. There are a lot of maids out there are critically effected by inflation. What is it fair here?
Ok Jimbo... there had to be one person come on here and have a dig..... I don;t think your comment really needs a response because if you have a quick look at the other posts you will find that we are we are not out of the norm and we are trying to be fair employers nothing more. But you do like stirring the pot a little don't you... As i have said.. she is very good, efficent, cooks great meals 2-3 times a week and the house is always clean... The problem was sorted with a fair pay rise to $130 per month and 3 monthly reviews. THank you all for your imput...
Do you really think this was a scientific poll? Why take a swipe at me? My input was apparently at least as useful as anyone else's, given the fact that your final decision was close to what I was suggesting.
Umm do you want my honest answer... or do you just want me to be nice. Because honestly i found all of your comments unhelpful and ignorant. And actually i don't have many nice things to say about someone who is like that. Excuse me and sorry to all others who have to read this..... and in the future i'm sure if i post a question there will be more innappropriate and ignorant feedback from our number 1 inflamatory poster jimbo....... . From now on i shall not bite and just ignore... but this once... I love the word ignorant and it suits sooooo well....
answered about 4 months ago by PhilippeP
If she makes you happy and you can afford it, pay her. it is difficult to find someone trusty, good cook, good cleaning and if you feel bad about paying her this amount, may be ask her for some additional work or hours if it is possible, it might work and can become a win/win situation
VietSam do not worry about Jimbo, it seems that he has been spending time in the site to have this type of comments and he might be alone and needs some love. (go find a girlfriend) Because I do not know what to think about a guy who makes all these nasty comments and cannot even put his name and picture on his profile. anonymous critic, remind you anything....... Saying that you need some people like that to entertain, so we need him to live and amuse us, credibility, this is another question but it does not matter as soon as we know and be aware.
answered about 4 months ago by granteralus
Gotta love the anonymous critics!
answered about 4 months ago by cjbear
i also 'share' the same said lovely housekeeper... i am suprised and dismayed by comments about us being childlike! We are not two households of children. We are adults trying to find balance between work/'socialising' (drinking)and maintaining a healthy lifestyle...so..how are we supposed to eat fruit if it is not cut up in pieces for us? how are we supposed to have clean sheets/bedroom if someone does not change sheets/clean room/clothes etc for us? how we supposed to have quiet nights in, with home cooked meal, if someone does not cook for us?? who else will get things for us like toothpaste,shops are really hard to navigate, and can cut into quality drinking time!!so maybe have a think next time you judge..totally hard to be bothered to look after oneself, when someone else does it better!!Jealous???????
answered about 4 months ago by Christine
hmmmm...i have to say i initially questioned paying those 'premium' rates for a cleaner, but hell, I paid more rent in Bondi per week than I do for my super housekeeper per month....and now my knickers are folded, my socks are matching, and I'm coming home to the BEST chicken schnitzel ever for a bargain price ...which is equivalent to Sam's surreptulous (sp) cleaner. It took me a while though - you do get into the mindset of 'shock horror' that apple cost 50c instead of 10c! Maybe it's a sad state to get into questioning an already low pay (compared to ours), but this seems to be the way things swing after you've been here for a while, unfortunate, but true. And hell, I've slogged my ars off to over the years, it's just that it's all relative...Either way, times are a changing in Vietnam, and even if I think it's cheeky to up the price by that much, hands up to a woman standing up for her self worth and abilities. I will huff and puff away with the best of them, until I come home to that delicious home cooked dinner and sigh a happy sigh!!!!!
answered about 4 months ago by NickinNam
Inflation in Vietnam is 25% annual this year alone. Which means that the $100 you paid your housekeeper last year only buys her $75 worth of food, rent, petrol etc. compared to last year. You should have been giving her raises all along, indexed to the inflation rate here. That said, we are 5 expats sharing a large house. We pay our woman 1.2 million per month ($72) for 2 days a week which is VND 160,000 or about $9 per day for about 4 1/2-5 hours per day. She cleans and does laundry/ironing and little errands (dropping off dry cleaning etc...) for 5 of us. No cooking. So my housekeeper works 8 days a month for $72 and yours works 20 days a month (AND cooks you dinner) for $100. By equivilance, we pay ours $181 per month if she worked as much as yours did. I think you are a cheap SOB. I think this woman should tell you where to stick it. I also think I'm going to suggest to the housemates we give our woman, who is wonderful, a $1 a day raise to round it out to $10 per day. I think you should pay $10 per day too.
Your woman?! I'm thinking she gets far too little for whatever she does for you!
answered about 4 months ago by suddenpaws
A lot of this actually has to do with the relationship you have with your housekeeper (or your "woman", as NickinNam so delicately puts it!). Try sitting down with her and talking about what she does and what she perceives as fair pay, and why. If she doesn't speak English well, get a bilingual mate to help you out. Actually go to a little effort to find out about her, and you may be surprised at the response. I just gave my maid a 200thou increase to her monthly pay, which was originally 1 million per month for two mornings a week (I live alone and am pretty neat to start with). She told me it wasn't necessary, but I thought it was, and insisted. She is awesome. I trust her, she does much more than I ever expected, and I am so happy she is with me. I thought it was more than worth it for me to have folded underwear. Besides, an increase to keep up with inflation every 12 months is fair, isn't it? That's what unions negotiate for in the west, after all...
answered about 4 months ago by herohanoi
Hi, I'm Korean. A lot of Koreans are staying near Trung Hoa Nhan Chinh area. and I heard maid of my colleagues can take 1,200,000VND per month. Her mission is like this. 1. Cleaning the house, 2 Prepare lunch for 2~3 person (cooking dishes) 3. Washing clothes using washing machine 4. Ironing the clothes. From 1 to 4 tasks takes 2~3 hours a day. She works 2~3 hours a day, 5 days a week. Of course maids are also asking us to raise their monthly pay because of high inflation. But still cheaper than this. Maid serves multiple Korean house which located nearly with each other at a time and she may think this money is enough for her. I hope this can be helpful to you
answered about 3 months ago by NickinNam
"Our chick?" "Our girl?" "Our maid?" "Our housekeeper?" "Cleaning lady" "Household Hygiene Engineer?". Ya just can't please the politically correct folks anymore. No offense intended to any genders, races, professions or other subdivisions of humanity. I really don't know what to say here other than to say that Lan is a wonderful woman for whose services I am grateful and I hope what we pay her buys a relatively comfortable life and we have begun to discuss it among the roomates, and a raise is definitely in her future, and linked to inflation with regular reviews. Or was that "whom's" services? I don't want the grammer police on my ass now! It's only fair folks. You can't make these wonderful people trade in the hours of their lives for a handful of dimes and laugh about it like your station in life wasn't just the luck of the "where you were born and the opportunities you had" lottery. You and I are in the relatively lucky sperm club. You could have just as easily have been shot out here, needing a raise to buy rice for your family. 'Nuff said. Nick-in-Nam
answered about 3 months ago by angelonbroomstick
well said nick!
answered about 3 months ago by VietSam
Is there any male housekeepers? Would you call them a house boy, or male maid or a cleaning man or our boy? Hmm just a thourght...
try to live on 1.2 million per month with a family and some kids to raise and know what "ridiculous" means!honestly, Wtf! trying to keep peace and being a good employer by being a colonialist and ridiculous? yeah right dudette!
Dear Sam, At least in Korea, according to the pilot episode of "M*A*S*H", my only point of reference, the term is "house boy". As in Ho-Jon the house boy from the original book, the movie, and the pilot episode, summarized here: #01 – Pilot At the 4077th Mobile Army Surgical Hospital (M.A.S.H) unit in Korea, two army doctors by the names of Hawkeye Pierce and Trapper John McIntyre receive some exciting news in the mail. Their Korean house boy, Ho-John got accepted into Hawkeye's old college. Hawkeye and Trapper decide to hold a party filled with music, dancing, and alcohol to raise money for Ho-John's plane trip to the U.S. (http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?p=3603453) So here's a suggestion, you could send your housekeeper to your old college! You could pay her tuition like Hawkye, and we could all have a fundraiser for her at one of the many expensive restaurants you regularly review on this site! When I eat (rarely) at one of these places, I often drop more than 1.2 million VND for a freakin meal for me and a friend or two. That's why I don't begrudge our Local Household Hygiene and Organizational Engineer a few more dong. Who ARE you Sam? I'm sorry, but you reek of privilege and condescension. Did you make fun of the kids at school who didn't have the cool clothes and sneakers that you did? Always remember, "there but for the grace of God go I". Unless you are very rich, and covered by your parent's wealth, you are but one economic ripple away from working for minimum wage, washing other peoples knickers, and praying you'll be able to feed yourself and your progeny. This is no longer about your housekeeper, it is about your sense of humanity. My fondest wish is that we don't run into each other in common circles. It wont be pretty. Regards, Nick
Oh come on Nick!!!! I was just stirring... I don't really mind what you call your helper, housekeeper! I think we are in a privilaged situation YES...... I believe I am paying a fair rate.... But it's not really about that anymore is it. NO I am not very rich... I am not covered by my parents wealth..... Anyone who knows me, also knows that I treat everyone, male female, spanish, english australian, vietnamese, cleaner, teacher, president in the same manner. They are all people and they all deserve my respect unless they do something worth disrespecting..... But this is not really about me is it..... I think we really need to look at the rest of Expat Hanoians response to this.... Everyone struggles with the idea of employing someone to do something that in most parts of the world you would do your self. I struggle with it, but i appreciate it... I treat Ms. Huong well, I always chat to her about her kids, buy her small gifts on her birthday, pay her fairly and raise her pay when it is appropriate. I love coming home to a beautiful clean house and dinner in the fridge. I actually hope we do run into each other.... It would sure be an interesting conversation... But perhaps you could learn to have a laugh at yourself too...
answered about 3 months ago by Candide
Dear VietSam & Co, I must agree with NickinNam and the one or two other sensible people who have spoken on this topic. 1. What an outrageous cheek to discuss this woman's business in a public forum! Would you like your employer to do likewise to you and have every backpacking miser in town say what they think you're worth? It is classic colonialist condescension to think that 'they' are to be spoken of like another order of person and 'won't ever know' anyway. 2. You have agonised publicly over raising your housekeeper's rate of pay from $1.11 per hour (yes I did the math) to the "premium" rate of $1.44 per hour. Well done you obviously feel much better now you have brainstormed - and you saved yourself the actual 22cents per hour the poor woman originally asked for by haggling her down. 3. The rate of inflation in Vietnam is indeed running at about 25% and guess what the pay rates you're going on about are about 2 years out of date compared to what anyone who is not on a hit and run mission is paying. I would say $200 - $220 is the mark these days. Most housekeepers are incredibly efficient and can do their work in roughly they time you're calling "part". Guess what. If you go to work five days a week and work that long I'd stop calling it part time and pay her what she deserves. Ask yourself: what extra duties would she have to perform if you changed her title to - full time worker. 4. Finally, you say on your profile that you are not here to start a sweat-shop. However your employment practices and lack of common respect or decency towards employee is tantamount to that very practice. Go one of your fancy bars and drink at the rate of $1.44 per hour and see what a buzz you get or better still try to pay your rent, feed and educate your family on the same money - you'll be positively delirious. We are guests in this country not a gods from the sky for goodness sake. Lets act like it. I hope you've learned something from this experience VietSam. Pax, Candide
answered about 3 months ago by jimbo
What a tangled web we weave. Sam, please review the insulting comments you directed toward me a few weeks ago, when I stated the same opinions that have been more recently expressed.
answered about 3 months ago by Doz1
Oooh Nick, you mentioned Mash.I grew up watching that programme. All the family would sit there glued to it. I loved it. Thanks for the reminder
Well. If we were not just covering the same old tracks, I would respond but honestly it would be like running around in circles. And people are just not having a dig for having a digs sake... really.
or perhaps just having a dig for digs sake. really...
Dear VietSam, Solipsism (from the Latin) means roughly literally, "My mind is the only thing that I know exists." Solipsism is generally defined as a conviction that knowledge of anything outside one’s own mind is unjustified. Although you may perceive arguments that are critical of your ideas as criticisms (digs) of yourself it might be useful to you to re-read some of the responses to your query and analyse them for sense rather than personal assault. I do not know you or any of the other people in this forum and have nothing to gain by insulting you. To set your mind at rest I’m sure you are a very nice person - if a little confused in some of your basic assumptions. Therefore a conscious person might possibly examine their own arguments or positions for weaknesses and consider revising them in the light of new information. Socrates famously said, “The unexamined life is not worth living” and Lebowski said, “Dude, new shit has come to light.” Just because you have more people who agree with you on this topic does not mean you/they are right or that you should stop thinking about it. Bear this in mind – we hear a lot of people in Hanoi bleat, in mock outrage, about how the national average wage is only $2 - $3 a day. True. However this average is a figure that includes every worker; in a country of 86 million people, a huge poverty stricken rural population and a relatively tiny middle class, regardless of age and including all of the ‘sweatshop’ workers that have been sanctimoniously mentioned earlier. These expats then clap themselves on the back by saying they pay “twice the average wage per day!" or more. The vital point is that they are not taking into account the fact that they are living in a capital city with a much higher cost of living and are happy to lump in illegally low sweatshop wages into their calculations. If you are here to exploit the local population like many multinational companies are at least do not participate in the bad faith of saying that you are involved in something essentially different or even altruistic. MacDonalds are forcing workers, many only teenagers, into a 70 hour week making toys for their ‘happy meals’ (happy for whom) for $4.20 a week and there are many other similar examples. If we as an expat community are happy to take advantage of such criminal exploitation by factoring it into our calculations of fair wages then we are no better than them. This, I hope you realise, is not a debate about you or your housekeeper at this point VietSam but rather a larger more important ethical point that applies to all of us who are enjoying the hospitality of this country for a limited period of time. I hope you take it as such and not a mere personal assault. Pax, Candide
answered about 2 months ago by Candide
Dear Button Clickers, I see that there have been ten clicks by readers on the 'utter rubbish' button to my responses to this query - as is their prerogative. These are just my opinions of course. I am more than happy to adjust them if one of these people can compose a coherent argument as to why I am mistaken. There has also, strangely, been a deafening silence on the topic aside from these phantom clickers. This seems to be quite odd to me. There are two possibilities of course. 1. These people know they don't have actually have any tenable argument and are cranky that their hypocrisy has been pointed out to them publicly. 2. These people have interesting and well thought out arguments but they are shy creatures who don’t like to hog the spotlight. I can only say, come out little night creatures. Share your ideas with the rest of us continue this important debate. Otherwise it looks like it’s definitely option 1 and in the words of Emily Dickinson, “Saying nothing...sometimes says the most.” Pax, Candide
